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RE: Perhaps Important for all of us: German Law for Signatures on Reisepas

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Perhaps Important for all of us: German Law for Signatures on Reisepass
citizenship einbürgerungsurkunde german passport
Answer
4/23/18 3:15 PM
Hi,

I have recently received my Einbürgerungsurkunde. When I went to apply for Reisepass I had a very strang experience. The lady told me that my signatures need to be changed as per German Law. I was really surprized. She said that I must have some how my nachname in signatures. After a long discussion we finally reached a solution that I can use my real signatures + nachname as part of signature. I had no other option because she was not accepting any reasoning. Although I told her that this way I will have 2 different signatures and might have problem with my all important documents.

Until now I had one signature but on my German passport I will have my real old signature + nachname as signatures.

Can anyone of you please guide me what should I do in this case:

- what could be the best possible solution to this problem ?
- what signautes should I use in future.
- what could be the possible problems if I use my real old signatures without nachname.

It would be great if someone can comment on it. Specially senior members @TRUST7

Thanks a lot in advance.

Best Regards 
0 (0 Votes)

RE: Perhaps Important for all of us: German Law for Signatures on Reisepas
Answer
4/23/18 3:22 PM as a reply to scor pion.
This is really strange!

I do not believe this 'Reisepass Lady' !!

My name is quite long so I choosed just to write the 3 first letters of it: dvh

This is on my passport and everywhere. You should not accept this, because of the possible problems you might have in the future, as you realized yourself.

Detlef
+1 (1 Vote)

trust7:
This is really strange!

I do not believe this 'Reisepass Lady' !!

My name is quite long so I choosed just to write the 3 first letters of it: dvh

This is on my passport and everywhere. You should not accept this, because of the possible problems you might have in the future, as you realized yourself.

Detlef
Dear Detlef,

Thank you very much for your quick response. it is really nice of you.
Actually I tried everything but she is not accepting. Actually now I have no passport and I only have Einbürgerungsurkunde. That is why in this critical situation I don't have much options.

Can you please suggest me what should I do now as I applied for reisepass today. 

Thanks again !
0 (0 Votes)

RE: Perhaps Important for all of us: German Law for Signatures on Reisepas
Answer
4/23/18 4:33 PM as a reply to scor pion.
try to talk to her boss.

I am sorry for you, but it is up to you how to go on. I would try to talk to someone above her and if you get a confirmation that she told you nonsens (that's what I guess), they have to apollogize and start the process again, without any fees for you.

Good luck

Detlef
0 (0 Votes)

trust7:
try to talk to her boss.

I am sorry for you, but it is up to you how to go on. I would try to talk to someone above her and if you get a confirmation that she told you nonsens (that's what I guess), they have to apollogize and start the process again, without any fees for you.

Good luck

Detlef
Thanks again for your kind reply. I couldn't get information who is above her. But I will contact " beschwerdestelle": I hope it will not have any negative impact on my case or my citizenship.

Thanks 
0 (0 Votes)

The lady is right because a signature per definition is "Unterschrift (auch Signatur, von lateinisch signatum „das Gezeichnete“ zu signum „Zeichen“) ist die handschriftliche, eigenhändige Namenszeichnung auf Schriftstücken durch eine natürliche Person mit mindestens dem Familiennamen"

"Die eigenhändige Unterschrift unter einem Text wahrt nach deutschem Zivilrecht sowohl die in § 126 Abs. 1 BGB gesetzlich vorgeschriebene Schriftform als auch die freiwillige – also ohne gesetzliche Notwendigkeit verwendete – Schriftform sowie den Urkundencharakter von privaten Urkunden gemäß § 440 ZPO"

And derived from the BGB§126(1), the signature for documents (Urkunde z.B.) must be made per hand and should contain the name "(1) Ist durch Gesetz schriftliche Form vorgeschrieben, so muss die Urkunde von dem Aussteller eigenhändig durch Namensunterschrift oder mittels notariell beglaubigten Handzeichens unterzeichnet werden.", you also have the mean to sign something else but this has to be stamped by a notar, that it is really your signature.
Do you really want to go the length of searching for a notar, pay him money just to get your previous signature be stamped and you then have to walk around with the document from the notar just to prove you can sign as you signed?

The easiest way is to get a signature with your name on it (I had to do it to and changed a signature I was using for nearly 20 years) just to be right with the law.
D.
0 (0 Votes)

Something also picked from the internet regarding signature, a simple Google search could have helped you answer your concerns

"Muss ich mit Vor- und Zunamen unterschreiben?

Die Unterschrift gilt als eindeutige Willensbekundung des Unterzeichnenden. Deshalb muss aus dem Schriftzug hervorgehen, von wem er stammt.

Der Bundesgerichtshof hat detailliert festgelegt, wie eine gültige Unterschrift aussieht: Sie muss den vollen Familiennamen enthalten, der Vorname alleine reicht nicht aus. Bei dem Schriftzug muss es sich zudem erkennbar um die Wiedergabe eines Namens handeln. Dieser muss zwar nicht vollständig lesbar sein, es müssen aber zumindest Andeutungen von Schrift erkennbar sein.

Eine gerade Linie ist ebenso wenig eine Unterschrift wie ein abstraktes Symbol oder drei Kreuze. Es ist auch nicht erlaubt, mit einem fremden Namen zu unterschreiben. Mit einem Künstlernamen darf man hingegen unterzeichnen, wenn dieser allgemein bekannt ist und einen eindeutigen Rückschluss auf die Person zulässt.

Zusammengefasst lässt sich festhalten: Wer Rechtsgeschäfte tätigen will, sollte auch in Zukunft mit der Hand schreiben können. Denn wo das Gesetz eine Unterschrift verlangt, muss man mit dem eigenen Namen unterzeichnen. Eine schludrige Schrift ist dabei durchaus zulässig, bloße Kringel oder Kreuzchen reichen aber nicht aus."

D.
0 (0 Votes)

OMG, i have been signing wrong all my life!!!
0 (0 Votes)

RE: Perhaps Important for all of us: German Law for Signatures on Reisepas
Answer
5/4/18 12:47 PM as a reply to A Alvarez.
me too! I am so sorry ;-

dvh
0 (0 Votes)

Thank you everyone for your valuable comments and suggestions. 
I have finally received my passport and an official letter from Rathaus which states that they have requested me to add surname in signatures. 
I think I have to live with it emoticon

Thanks again for your time !
0 (0 Votes)

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