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NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Creado 13/01/2007 9:29
NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Dear All,
What about the new law, if some one gets anual salary >63000 Euro can get NE?
How is it calculated, does it including urlaub and weinacht geld.
Thanks and regards-
ASM
ASM
Usuario desde 25/06/2004
Creado 20/12/2008 22:22
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Hi Trust7 forum members,
as I have promised to give technical data about this subject, I am writing this post. I am writing this posting which is extremely important for all of us. Please take a printout of this and download all the documents I give its links, because these data are not anywhere in the world, nor any press news comments on this.
1. As you know from my earlier postings in this thread, German state has officially updated the law w.r.t. minimum annual gross income required to get NE (Niederlassungserlaubnis, unlimited residence/work permit) stated in AufenthG §19:
http://www.aufenth.../aufenthaltsg.html#19
2. German government made a program to improve the rights of foreigns in Germany:
http://www.bmas.de...ramm__fachkraefte.pdf
3. In this program, they have proposed to reduce minimum annual gross income required for AufenthG §19.2.3. In this law sentence it says:
Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung erhalten.
4. "der Doppelte der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung" is 2x 43.200 Euro = 86.400 Euro (2008) and 2x 44.100 Euro = 88.200 Euro (2009):
http://de.wikipedi...nd_Pflegeversicherung
5. Goverment has made a law proposal (Gesetzentwurf) to change the part I wrote in (4): http://dip21.bunde...td/16/102/1610288.pdf
In this proposal they say in page 5, right column:
In § 19 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 werden die Wörter „dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung“ durch die Wörter „der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung“ ersetzt.
6. "die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung" is 63.600 Euro (2008), 64.800 Euro (2009):
http://de.wikipedi...he_Rentenversicherung
7. Bundesrat said the government must reduce the salary down to 53.400 Euro, but government refused it:
http://dip21.bunde...td/16/107/1610722.pdf
8. BeschV (Beschäftigungsverordnung) from Federal Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs (Bundesministerium für Arbeit und Soziales): http://dip21.bunde.../brd/2008/0840-08.pdf
9. Beschlussempfehlung von Innenausschuss (parliament commission report):
http://dip21.bunde...td/16/109/1610914.pdf
This document is the proof that parliament has passed the law
10. Bundesrat refused 63.600 Euro:
http://www.bundest...politik/22908287.html
They have proposed 53.400 Euro:
http://dip21.bunde...td/16/111/1611166.pdf
11. Vermittlungsauschuss (advisory committe) has concluded not to reduce 63.600 Euro:
http://www.bundesr...-2008.html?__nnn=true
12. Bundesrat then approved the law:
http://www.bundesr...-node.html?__nnn=true
TOP 76:
Gesetzeskategorie:
Zustimmungsbedürftiges Gesetz
Beschlusstenor:
Zustimmung
Bemerkungen:
Die Zuleitung an den Bundesrat ist für den 18. Dezember 2008 vorgesehen.
With item 12, it is officially proven that the law is PASSED.
13. Apart from all these, all local authorities for aliens (Ausländerhörde) get "Anwendungshinweis des BMIs" (recommendation of Federal Ministry of the Interior to the local authorities) document, that how they should intepret the law. This document is actually not open to the public, but by chance I have found it on internet:
http://www.inneres...ochqualifizierte2.pdf
There it says
Bei dem Personenkreis nach Nummer 3 ist die Annahme der „Hochqualifikation“ durch ihre Berufserfahrung und berufliche Stellung gerechtfertigt. Um eine missbräuchliche Anwendung und Auslegung zu verhindern, wird zusätzlich eine Mindestgehaltsgrenze in der Höhe des Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung gefordert, die regelmäßig ein Indiz für die herausragende berufliche Stellung und Fähigkeit darstellt. Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze wird jährlich zum Ende des Kalenderjahres an die allgemeine Entwicklung angepasst. Sie findet sich in der Verordnung über maßgebende Rechengrößen der Sozialversicherung, die im Bundesgesetzblatt Teil I veröffentlicht wird.
Here it says that the salary is a measurement for "high qualification". There is no citation on qualification type, ie. whether you must be an engineer or not.
13. There is no detailed press news for all the stuff above. This law is extremely important for the foreigns and but no press information exist. The list above is the only one that can give you an idea.
According to the data above, anyone must get NE AufenthG §19, after 01.01.2009, as soon as you can prove that you get minimum 63.600 Euro (2008) or 64.800 Euro (2009), immediately. If not, a lawyer, who is expert in foreign law, must win any court case according to the data above.
In 2009 a lot of foreigns will be jobless. It will be then extremely difficult to get this NE because a lof jobless foreigns will occupy Ausländerbehörde. Therefore take a copy of all documents above!
Klenze17.
klenze17
Usuario desde 30/12/2004
Creado 01/01/2009 23:32
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
The law change has been documented in Official Journal of the State, with "BGBl. I S. 2846":
http://www.bgblpor...bl1f/bgbl108s2846.pdf
The PDF document can be accessed from http://frei.bundes...p;jahr=2008&nr=63 .
With this document, the law is effective as of 01.01.2009, i.e. 84K has been history.
I wish that there would be no problems about this law in practice, but I strongly believe that the alien offices will have a lot of problems to give this permit to the people who need it, because it will be difficult to keep track of the processes for these permits among the foreigns who will be jobless and occupy the offices in 2009.
Klenze17.
klenze17
Usuario desde 30/12/2004
Creado 02/01/2009 14:17
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Thanks Klenze17 for the update.
Few days ago, I have received approval from Landratsamt which says ''zur Beschäftigung ohne Beschränkung für Sie zugestimmt''.
Does this mean BE ? We are planning to give our Passports middle of this month for necessary stamping.
But with the new NE rules prevailing, do you suggest me to take BE or NE ? Some pointers would be helpful.
Thanks,
Truster
truster
Usuario desde 26/06/2008
Creado 03/01/2009 10:03
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Truster asks:
But with the new NE rules prevailing, do you suggest me to take BE or NE ? Some pointers would be helpful.
Truster, there are tons of posts in this web site, which answer all of your questions. All of us have spent a lot of time to write all these threads/messages. Please don't be lazy, now it's your turn to spend time to get the answers. Also, please read the complete thread of this post.
Klenze17.
klenze17
Usuario desde 30/12/2004
Creado 09/01/2009 13:51
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Hi,
Thanks Klenze for the valuable info, according to the information provided above.
Today i received letter from landratsamt, with the following
Jahresbruttogehalt i.H.v. mindestens dem DOPPELTEN der Beitragsbemssungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung.
Diese Grenze bemisst sich für 2009 auf einem Gehalt von mindestens 64.800,- Euro. Also müssten Sie uns einen Jahresverdienst i.H.d. Doppelten, also i.H.v. 129.600,- Euro nachweisen. (§ 19 Abs. 2 Nr.3 AufenthG)
does this mean i should have 129600 Euros as my annual salary ?
Krishna
mkvsr
Usuario desde 18/01/2004
Creado 09/01/2009 14:41
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
@krishna
They are wrong
http://www.aufenth.../aufenthaltsg.html#19
(2) Hoch qualifiziert nach Absatz 1 sind insbesondere
1.Wissenschaftler mit besonderen fachlichen Kenntnissen,
2.Lehrpersonen in herausgehobener Funktion oder wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter in herausgehobener Funktion oder
3.Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung erhalten.
It only says "mindestens" and not "doppelte". So ask them if they dont have it wrong.
raj
Usuario desde 27/01/2004
Creado 09/01/2009 15:18
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
@krishna
they mixed up the lines.
Previously they said before correction..
sth like doppelte....krankenversicherung and after correction its
mindestens...gesetzliche..rentenversicehrung.
So the lines accordign to your letter says doppelte rentenversicherung..
theres some confusion on their part I guess toi interpret the latest and the previous ones.
cheers
rajendrak
Usuario desde 23/06/2008
Creado 09/01/2009 18:58
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Hi Krishna!
yes, as the other members stated, the word "doppelte" is absolutely wrong.
Your case confirms my assumption that this law will be misunderstood or misinterpreted by the officials. We will see similar cases in the following days. Almost no official knows this law. Almost no one in Germany has got this permission. They just don't know and misinterpret the law. Anwendunghinweis des BMI (explanations from Ministry of Interior to the officials) is needed so that they can correctly interpret the law. This document will be distributed to all officials in Germany and might take 1-2 months maybe. Until then we will see such kind of funny things.
Krishna, please post here what kind of things you need to do for this (necessary documents etc). It seems that you have done a lof things about it. What did you do to get that letter from Landratsamt? What was the procedure? What documents are needed? Any single information is vital for us. Plase help!
Klenze17.
klenze17
Usuario desde 30/12/2004
Creado 12/01/2009 16:07
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Hi all,
I have finally applied for this permit. Let me share the experiences at Ausländerbehörde. I have decided not to take a lawyer but to use the "usual way" for the application. For this, I have applied for this permit at my Ausländerbehörde at Bezirksamt in Hamburg. I have told the official there that I am applying for Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte, also told him about the change in the law.
As I expected, he did not know the change and first he told me that I have prove the salary according to the old law (86.4000 Euro). Then I told him that the law has been changed and shown him the copy of the change in the law (63.600 Euro). Also to prove I have shown him all the salary slips for whole 2007 (12 salary slips) and 2008 (12 salary slips). I have also shown him that my grade (Gehaltsgruppe) is one of the highest levels in Germany. Finally I could convince the official.
Then the official has taken all my documents, gone to his manager and he talked with his manager for 30 minutes. He came back and told me that he copied all the documents I shown him. He said he will send them to Arbeitsamt (Bundesagentur für Arbeit) and ask for their approval, because according to the law Bundesagentur für Arbeit must approve my application (Zustimmung). He said it will take ca. 2 weeks of time. He asked me to come 2 weeks later to him. Arbeitsamt will talk with my HR in the company to get more information about me, to approve my application.
Additionally he asked me that whether I have shown extraordinary performance at work. That means he wanted to know whether I have got some prize or similar. I will show him the bonus/prizes I have got, next time when I am there.
I think as soon as Arbeitsamt approves my application, then it is done.
I think it is very difficult to drive this application progress in Germany because almost no official is familiar with that.
Therefore I strongly advice to all who apply for this special permit to show the officials
- salary slips for 2008 (all of them, 12 months)
- Gehaltsgruppe (which grade you are)
- job contract
I want to point that Greencard IT-ArGV document has helped me a lot. That means, all GClers who still do not have NE but who have min. 63.600 of gross annual salary have right to get this permit.
It is so difficult to convince the officials. Technically speaking I am eligible for this but it is so much challenge to tell this to the officials.
Let's wait for 2 weeks.. After that we will see.
Klenze17.
klenze17
Usuario desde 30/12/2004
Creado 12/01/2009 16:47
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
@klenze
Good luck with your process
raj
Usuario desde 27/01/2004