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Waste of Time

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Posted on 07/01/2005 12:04 pm

Waste of Time

Hi all,

I have been following the site for quiet some time, I think it is helpful to many GCs. Now I wanted to write my 2 cents about the issue of GC.
I believe that I have a good view on the german society, I spent since I was a teenager until about 25 years of age here in Germany. I know a bit of the culture here. The german society is not an will NOT be a Multi Kulti Cultures, the politics and the pepole don't want it and therefore the foreigners will always will looked down at, no matter who they are and what educational background they have. The PisaII confirms also that this society segragates, just like south africa did, only it is not done openly. This country does not have an anti discrmination law, or what it has has no teeth. I would advise any foreigner not to put any roots down in Germany, even if you think you are making it, which is mostly only temporarly, think of the opportunities your childern will have, they end up most likely in der "Hauptschule" and that is a dead end. The germans are very stubborn and will not change their system or learn from other countries and their politics will not change either. Politicians like Stoiber or Beckstein for example are Nazis, all the way, they only have sometimes a smile on their face, that is only the difference from the past. And of course as the economy gets worse the foreigners will be at fault, in the eyes of the society and because they don't speak German ) this discussion about integation is a big joke, you want to integrate people? well you got to put them at least on equal footing with others, just walk down the street and see when police stops a foreigner he or she asks him first for his visa papers, this all is becuase of his looks, the Gestapos used to do that too with the jews. Oh well, this got to be a bit long but my advise to you all is to look for jobs in other countries where you will be accepted and welcomed and where your children will have a better chance. O personally think the job situation in germany will get worse, the german companies are doing very well but not the workfore, the whole east block is a big challenge for germany and I don't think they can take up that challenge, has a bit with being stubborn to do )

JJ

Member since 07/01/2005

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 2:22 pm

Re: Waste of Time

Hi JJ

I agree with you. Does not mean that I hate germans or germany, but i think this place is not suitable for foreigners. Tho i speak german i am finding it difficult to integrate. I see quite a lot of GCs in this forum discuss most of the time about PR, citizenship, settling down, integration etc., I am not sure what they have found great which i have not. I am not offending anyone here. Just my views.

Rgds, Asian

Asian

Member since 24/08/2004

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 2:39 pm

Re: Waste of Time

running after CS or PR does not mean he will certainly stay here forever. it's just a security for the whole life for the foreigners coming from a third world country. it's just a great opportunity.

regards,

mk

mk

Member since 22/06/2004

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 3:12 pm

Re: Waste of Time

Hi

I don't hate germans or germany, don't take me wrong but I think the effort put in by some people here is not worth the outcome. Integration is not just knowing the language. I thibk there are plenty of other counties where the effort would be worth. It makes me sad to see how some people struggle, not to say beg, to get a PR here. In the long run they won't be happy here and neither their families.

Cheers

JJ

Member since 07/01/2005

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 3:18 pm

Re: Waste of Time

@JJ

you are right my friend.

we all know about the facts!

regards,

mk

mk

Member since 22/06/2004

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 3:21 pm

Re: Waste of Time

As the topic of the forum says “It’s a Waste of Time” discussing it once again as it was discussed earlier.

Suppose we can catergorize people into three types
1. People who like it here very much and like to stay longer. (minority)
2. People who don’t like it very much but want to stay longer. ( majority)
3. People who don’t like it here and don’t want to stay. ( minority )

Well myself and other GC’s talking about the PR, Citizenship all are in the 2nd category mostly. What one finds great need not be necessarily great for the others.

Personally, financially and professionally I am very content with things here in germany and I hope most of the other GC’s would agree with that.
Everyone had great expectations coming to this country. Some are successful in realising their dreams and others not. Everyone has faced problems or rejections one time or the other, but doesn’t mean you have to quit trying.

Integration is a very generic term. Everyone can make their own intepretation of what they want it to be.

Cheers
Rajesh

raj

Member since 27/01/2004

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 3:41 pm

Re: Waste of Time

Hallo Raj,

I am sure you have heard the government's slogan of : "Kinder statt Inder". I think you'll be much happier in UK. The east european immigrants blend in the society much better than you ever will and they are not considered so much as foreigners.

NoCheers

JJ

Member since 07/01/2005

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 3:57 pm

Re: Waste of Time

Having a German PR or Citizenship can bring other benefits. One does not need to be in Germany after getting those. I know that a PR will be automatically invalid, when one stays out of the Germany more than 6 months but this will not be the case for EU area in the near future.(probably will include UK as well. Meaning that a PR given by a member state will be valid in all member states.)
There is already some kind of law framework which describes how this should be handled. This needs to be accepted by the individiual member states of the EU.
I believe after getting EU consitution voted in all EU member states successfully(will happen at the end of this year), other EU wide policies will come into effect. So one has to take into consideration all advantages and disadvantages of being in Germany. We should accept that in some areas, Germans do have the cutting edge technology which other developed countries dont have. This is also an important aspect to consider for knowledge workers like us, looking after challanges.

Regards,

Lacrima

PS: Yes, right-wing politicians openly show their foreigner-hate in their speeches.(I can give examples, if someone has an objection to that, "Kinder statt Inder" is one example) and they claim that this is because of their patriotism (in other words nationalism). They like to abuse the "foreigner-dislike" of an average German. This is easy politics to get votes. People tend not to like different speaking/looking/behaving people. This is in the human nature and like a primitive instinct. If a political party tries to abuse this primitive instinct, this is cheap/easy way of getting votes. Using the religion in party name and in the speeches/politics of the party is another cheap way of getting votes of an avarage citizen. (Right wing parties in Germany doing both)

lacrima

Member since 14/11/2003

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 4:41 pm

Re: Waste of Time

Hi JJ,
Thanks for pointing out the “Kinder statt Inder” slogan. But those things have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Even the Germans themselves are not mass producing babies just because some dumb politician asked them to.
Maybe you would have already seen the photo “The Indian Greecardlers are here” which shows a train with people hanging all over it. But actually I found it funny instead of being angry. One can’t take offense for each and every thing said about my people or country. There is always a time to show one’s patriotism.

No thanks for your suggestion that I will be well off in UK. Germany is much better. Believe me I have inside information from UK about what is happening there. Even my own country is not lagging behind when it comes to discrimination. So I don’t have no right to complain about other countries.

Anyway what makes you think East Europeans blend much better than I ever will? Is it because I can be identified by my hair or skin colour?

Cheers
Rajesh

raj

Member since 27/01/2004

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 10:22 pm

Re: Waste of Time

Assumption: there is nothing like "perfect place" anywhere including one's own country.

Fact: Every country/system has its pros and cons.

Result: To stay or leave a country is highly personal decision based on one's own experiences and liking. so all said and done, this affair can't be viewed in black and white. And not only in gray but there are many shades of this discussion.

I would say not a word against Germany, because it has sheltered me and offered an opportunity to work here. If my own country offered me same opportunity and living standard, why would I think of moving out permanently at all! Same applies for many here. If I can not mingle with people due to my not knowing German or my "cultural thinking" or whatever, I am responsible for that not Germany!

Despite knowing German, despite trying to mingle with people here, if someone "less understanding or frustrated" points to me because of his/her lack of whole picture, Should I run away? may be not because "they do not know what they are doing".

Infact, I really appreciate the tolerance of average German people not only to foreigners but also towards some "rude" Germans. And most Germans know that "good" politician is hard to find and there are no rules or moral in politics. And many Germans also understand that Gcs or qualified people help German economy in long term.

Suppose Germany forces GCs out after 5 years due to xyz reason! It is bad for Gcs but Germany has right to do so because after all this is their land and little bit because GCs were first "invited" for 5 years only legally and were not "kidnaped" from their countries. However, It is highly unlikely that something like of this extreme happens in current economical situation.

munchener

Member since 16/08/2004

 

Posted on 07/01/2005 11:39 pm

Re: Waste of Time

"It is bad for Gcs but Germany has right to do so because after all this is their land"

If german companies can so easily sell their products in another country, then the citizens of that country should be able to work also in that german company.(eventually in Germany)

If they are so proud and want to close their borders to foreigners, then they have to stop also all trading with other countries.

Your argumentation is totally wrong. The main theory of capitalism says: Free-trade, free-movement of goods and free movement of labour.. the markets will give the right value for every good and also for the cost of the labour.

I dont want to give the impression that I defend capitalism here, but if they insist that the rules of the game is according to capitalism then they should always remember also the theory of capitalism. If there is free-trade, then there must be also free-movement of labour. The other way around is exploitation. As easy as that.

As long as they sell products to my country to provide the wellfare that they have here, I have the right to share that welfare as a citizen of that country.

Regards

Lacrima

lacrima

Member since 14/11/2003

 

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