Posted on 25/05/2004 8:42 am

Zuwanderungs comedy soap

Hi All

As many of you already know, today the Cancelor Schroeder have a "high level meeting" with the chiefs of the CDU/CSU. Newpapers and news says he wants to know and measure the possibilities of a law.

I was Googling a couple of minutes ago and I found a modification in the official Federal Government web page about the Zuwanderungsgesetz (as Google said, was modified about 8:30 am). Over there there is a PDF document with the whole text of the proposed law, but this is not the modified one with the Niederlassungserlaubnis for Nobel Prize winners or "Spitzenqualifizierte" who earns a couple of zillions Euro. They went back to the original text with the article 19 with the Niederlassungserlaubnis for us, humbles GC.

Maybe the GC Jurists can take a look at this text to see if I´m wrong or not. I´m just a bold mortal with just bare knowledge of the law and in addition I´m fu....g tired of findings twists and small letters to the laws to be here. (lol?)

Mfg

YO

Regards

YO

Posted on 25/05/2004 8:55 am

Re: Zuwanderungs comedy soap

Don't worry guys,
when CDU/CSU comes at 2005 as ruling government for germany, they will bring back the qualified 'own' engineers of Germany who is now working outside the country and there will be no problems left with GC, immigration law etc.

Posted on 25/05/2004 12:18 pm

Re: Zuwanderungs comedy soap

Just curious - and probably it has been discussed many times before in the past – it was clearly stated from very beginning of GC programme that we can stay only for 5 years – it’s not like that German government said that we can stay indefinitely and then suddenly changed mind. So I don’t really understand what is all that fuzz about with immigration law – yes, probably most of GC’s hopped that they can stay longer, but 5 years was always a part of a deal...

Posted on 25/05/2004 1:14 pm

Re: Zuwanderungs comedy soap

"But no worry, §18 is for us, it means that there is no more Time-Limit for us, and after 5 years we can get PR."

lol tell me please how §18 from newly proposed law differs from §10 AuslG? The sense is the same *lol*

"The GC can stay here longer as 5 years, if the gc has a job, with or without "Zuwanderungsgesetz"! If the meeting today is not successful, the government will make own "Gesetz" for us without CDU/CSU. Do not worry. The time will come for you, to get a PR!"

A job as well as all necessary permits, true. But if GC does not have a job, he may be able to stay here longer as 5 years without "Zuwanderungsgesetz", but with "Zuwanderungsgesetz" such thing will be impossible for him.

Guys, for what do you fight? I just took a look at this proposal of "Zuwanderungsgesetz" - if it enters into force BEFORE you get PRs, you are all in big-big trouble, because it does not simplify procedure and prerequisites for getting temporary residence permits and PRs, no, it makes it harder to obtain them! As well as closes existing holes which were present only because the responsibility for foreigners was divided between two absolutely different structures, therefore two parts as well - AuslG and part of SGB III - now they will be replaced by a new law, guess control over execution will be unified as well. do you know that if this new law comes into force, you will lose any right for unemployment benefit, regardless how long you worked here? Read §5 Abs.1 Satz 1 Nr.1, §8 Abs.2 together with §2 Abs.3 of this piece of political art, please! Do you know that you will be obliged to visit integration courses, even if you have a perfect german, perfectly know german history and german legal system? lol read this piece of political art please! nobody cares! you have to if you have it written in your papers that you are foreigner! do you know that it will be practically impossible for you to work for youself or open your own business here unless you invest at least 1 million dollars in German economy and create at least 10 new work places? and i did rid only small part of it, just during 10 minutes, i am sure there is a lot more! read, read those proposals! for what you are fighting, for the rope for youself *lol*?

i know only one thing for certain - if that law gets accepted and my interests will be seriously touched by it, i am going to file myself a claim to a Constitutional Court, in order to make it ineffective. and if that will not succeed, i a going to file a claim vs. Germany to a European Court *lol*

Posted on 25/05/2004 1:27 pm

Re: Zuwanderungs comedy soap

Thanks sengkiang or "The man formerly known as DD" ). You put the things clear but I can help you.

I guess the point here is another, just more important things than "Hey, you came here for 5 years, now go back home stupid".

Yes, Bies. You are right. This subject was extensely discussed here with some "friends" who allways want to kick us our countries (I don´t mean to say "home" because "home is where you are".

I would like to terminate with this nonsense point now. If you read the answer given by one of the authors of the GC regulations (link posted here a month ago) the spirit of the regulation was not to spit us from Germany after five years but give us the possibility to be here BUT FOLLOWING THE NORMAL AUSLANDERRECHT! and not a kind of Legal Limbo as is GC.

I don´t know if I want to be here after my 5 years. Is not only my decision. But I also don´t want the government kick my a.. out of Germany because I don´t deserve it and the company who bring me here or any who pays me won´t be also happy.

It´s a matter of "openmindness" in bad english.

For some of us, came here was not an "experiment" or "winning experience to get a better job in my country". I bring my experience here.

Maybe now you can understand this "fuzz" about the f...g law.

Regards

YO

Regards

YO

Posted on 25/05/2004 3:02 pm

Re: Zuwanderungs comedy soap

"You only have to attend to the integration courses if you can not explain yourself simple german"

§ 9 Niederlassungserlaubnis

(2) Einem Ausländer ist die Niederlassungserlaubnis (PR - my comment) zu erteilen, wenn
...
7. er über ausreichende Kenntnisse der deutschen Sprache verfügt,
8. er über Grundkenntnisse der Rechts- und Gesellschaftsordnung und der Lebensverhältnisse im Bundesgebiet verfügt
...
Die Voraussetzungen des Satzes 1 Nr. 7 und 8 sind nachgewiesen, wenn ein Integrationskurs erfolgreich abgeschlossen wurde. Von diesen Voraussetzungen wird
abgesehen, wenn der Ausländer sie wegen einer körperlichen, geistigen oder seelischen Krankheit oder Behinderung nicht erfüllen kann. Im Übrigen kann zur Vermeidung einer Härte von den Voraussetzungen des Satzes 1 Nr. 7 und 8 abgesehen
werden.

we were talking about PR *lol*?

"So if you have successfuly extended your permit once already (and the Foreigners Office didn't decide that this will be the last extension), and then you ask for another extension and they decide to deny it, they need another reason to do it and not §8 Abs.2"

True, but do not forget that the law has effect only on relationships which appeared after it came into force. so to say, if you prolonged your residence permit before this law came into force, it will hardly matter in sense of application of §8; and if this law will be accepted, the local authorities will get their instructions in time, do not worry about that *lol*

"As for §2 Abs.3, well if you pay Arbeitslosenversicherung, Pflegeversicherung, rentenversicherung ( ... Dabei bleiben das Kindergeld sowie öffentliche Mittel außer Betracht, die auf Beitragsleistungen beruhen oder die gewährt werden, um den Aufenthalt im Bundesgebiet zu ermöglichen.) Nothing changes here either."

LOL here you are right, as i told before, i read the document only during 10 minutes, so did not look at those paragraphs thoroughly. But! look here:

§ 8 Verlängerung der Aufenthaltserlaubnis
(1) Auf die Verlängerung der Aufenthaltserlaubnis finden dieselben Vorschriften Anwendung wie auf die Erteilung.
...
§ 18 Beschäftigung
...
Einem Ausländer kann (!!!) eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung erteilt werden,

- you no longer have a right for a temporary residence permit or for a prolongation of a temporary residence permit, and it does not matter whether you are GC or not. the same (no longer have a right) applies to a case when you are unemployed and need to change your residence permit in order to obtain an unemployment benefit - by the way, such purpose of issue of temporary residence permit (for a search for a new work place) i was not able to find in a new law. hence i would like to point out, that accordingly to IT-AAV you do have a right for a temporary residence permit as well as for its prolongation when you have a work permit; also currently you do have a right for a temporary residence permit up to 6 months when you are unemployed and are searching for a new job. "Do have a right" means that officials can not refuse to issue you a residence permit; with a new law you can say "bye-bye" to those rights, or? *lol*

And look at this piece of political art please:

"§ 106 Einschränkung von Grundrechten
(1) Die Grundrechte der körperlichen Unversehrtheit (Artikel 2 Abs. 2 Satz 1 des Grundgesetzes) und der Freiheit der Person (Artikel 2 Abs. 2 Satz 2 des Grundgesetzes) werden nach Maßgabe dieses Gesetzes eingeschränkt."

So! Germany no longer complies with basic human rights when it comes to foreigners *lol*