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Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
Posted on 20/11/2010 3:57 pm
Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
Hi Trust7 community,
As most of you know, in Germany it is possible for a foreigner to get an unlimited permit for high-skilled qualifications (Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte, §19 AufenthG : http://www.aufenth.../aufenthaltsg.html#19 ). I am one of the few people who is driving this subject in Trust7 (proof: http://www.trust7....ual_salary_63000_euro ). I have made a lot research on this research, helped here and personal life a lot of people, which I want to share it with you.
Despite the Arbeitsmigrationssteuerungsgesetz (the law which reduced minimum salary requirement from 84K to 63K in 2009, the main topic of this thread), in whole Germany only 169 foreigners have received NE $19 AufenthG in 2009:
http://www.migrati...rag._aWQ9NzQxMg_.html . I am one of these 169 people and had helped about 10 people here at Trust7 to get this permit. In 2008 only 151 foreigners got that. That means the law change did not "relax" the conditions. One of the main reasons was that there was a global crisis in 2008-2009 and a lot of foreigners have lost their job before they could get this permit. If you lose your job, you cannot apply for this permit.
The minimum salary is 66K for 2011:
http://de.wikipedi...tragsbemessungsgrenze
It is much difficult to get this permit in the states other than Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg because most IT/engineering sector are located in these states, and high-skilled foreigners are mostly in these states, too. I am in Hamburg and it was for me very difficult to get this permit. I had to talk with 4 officials, 2 managers and full process took 2 months. Officials in such states are not familiar with high-skilled migrants and they need more time to "understand" to process.
I will summarize The advantages of this permit:
1. People having this permit is ranked in a high priority for Arbeitsmarktprüfung (work labour market check), for the case if he or she loses her job and is registered in Arbeitsamt:
http://www.arbeits...ltsgesetz.pdf#page=45
2. If the person gets married with a non-EU citizen, then requirements that the spouse must be older than 18 years old and should speak German are not needed:
http://www.aufenth.../aufenthaltsg.html#30
For example, as a man, if I want to marry a woman, say, from Argentina, who is 17 and cannot speak German, then shen get a residence permit immediately to come to me, because of my unlimited permit for high-skilled migrants.
3. This permit does not need an approval from Arbeitsamt:
http://www.arbeits...ltsgesetz.pdf#page=51
I wish everyone success and patience to get this permit.
Klenze17.
klenze17
Member since 30/12/2004
Posted on 21/11/2010 2:33 pm
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
Hi Klenze17,
I amongst one of these people who had the §19 Niederlassungserlaubnis. I just got my citizenship some days back.
I would like to correct something - its not that only 169 people got it in whole of Germany but rather 311 in total (researchers and specialists) IMMIGRATED TO GERMANY under this law. This is exactly what the link you sent says.
So people like you and me who have been living in Germany and changed to this rule are not part of this number.
Just to give you a number, in 2008 this number was about 150 (compared to 311) in 2009. So the number has actually doubled.
---------------------
One thing I would also like to clarify. Your spouse doesnt need the German language A1 ONLY if you were married your spouse as you came to Germany and got the Niederlassungserlaubnis. So for example a person like you who changed his normal AE/BE to this § 19 NE is not eligible to use this relaxation.
I am 100% sure about it because this was the case of a friend of mine. I can search it out sometime when I have time.
supersid
Member since 26/07/2010
Posted on 21/11/2010 6:09 pm
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
Dear Kenze17,
I'd like to thank you for the information you submitted probably 2 or 3 years ago. I can remember how you followed the reduction of the lowest salary limit from 85k to 63k or so. Though at the time I read your thread for the first time, I already knew about the law and was already planning to apply for NE §19, I found it very assuring, that someone had a similar case and already received NE using the same arguments I intended to use for my application.
Siedler
Member since 08/09/2009
Posted on 21/11/2010 6:14 pm
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
I may also add that the wife and children get permission to work "Erwerbtätigkeit gestattet". Please correct me if I was wrong.
@supersid, If I may ask you, did the NE19 play a role in your application for citizenship? thanks.
Siedler
Member since 08/09/2009
Posted on 21/11/2010 8:18 pm
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
In general it does help if you show you are highly qualified 
In my particular case I applied for discretionary (§8 before 8 years) citizenship and here it definitely helpful.
supersid
Member since 26/07/2010
Posted on 22/11/2010 2:38 pm
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
Question: who decides if I am high-skilled? is a) company where I work? / b) the yearly salary c) Other?. I completed 5 years living in Germany with an Aufenhalterlaubnis and I wanted to get the Niederlassungserlaubnis. I went to the KVR and the guy told me you I had everything for the Nieder.. except that my german level is only 2A and I need to have B1, so he sent me to an integration curse (???). My current yearly salary is +67k. Your orientation is highly appreciated!
ferortega
Member since 22/11/2010
Posted on 22/11/2010 4:00 pm
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
The company writes a short letter summarizing your job + your special skills + your degrees and how valuable you are
+
Your salary needs to be above 66K. You need to take a filled out Arbeitgeberbescheinigung for proving this. Now some Ausländerbehörde staff count your bonus but the others count only the amount of money which is 100% sure for example - salary + Weihnachtsgeld will be counted but performance oriented bonus wont be counted.
In your case I see only the advantage (or disadvantage) that you would save on efforts to learn the language if you take Niederlassungserlaubnis for Hochqualifiziert. In general language helps + if you take the normal NE, you are also eligible for Daueraufenthaltserlaubnis EG which has more rights.
So you need to try your luck.
supersid
Member since 26/07/2010
Posted on 25/11/2010 2:15 am
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
superid wrote on 21/11/2010 2:33 pm
I would like to correct something - its not that only 169 people got it in whole of Germany but rather 311 in total (researchers and specialists) IMMIGRATED TO GERMANY under this law. This is exactly what the link you sent says.
So people like you and me who have been living in Germany and changed to this rule are not part of this number.
Just to give you a number, in 2008 this number was about 150 (compared to 311) in 2009. So the number has actually doubled.
No. As I wrote in my first post, I am talking only about §19 AufenthG. Please note that the subject of this thread is Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations. Before you registered at Trust7 on 26/07/2010, we had discussed since 2005 most of the time about §19 AufenthG here. What I refer is only this law and the related discussion ( http://www.trust7....ual_salary_63000_euro ) and the number 169 does refer to this law. For proof I copy-paste the link from first post again ( http://www.migrati...rag._aWQ9NzQxMg_.html ):
Diese Stellen konnten aber von den wenigen Zugewanderten nicht besetzt werden: Im Jahr 2009 wanderten lediglich 311 hoch qualifizierte Drittstaatsangehörige zu, 142 Forscher (Paragraf 20 AufenthG) und 169 andere Hochqualifizierte (Paragraf 19 AufenthG). Gleichzeitig verließen jedoch 109 Hochqualifizierte das Land wieder. Somit bleibt festzustellen, dass die Anwerbung Hochqualifizierter stetig steigt, jedoch im Gesamtumfang kaum Bedeutung besitzt.
I have received my permit from Paragraf 19 AufenthG in 2009, therefore I am one of 169 according to data above from BAMF ( http://www.bamf.de...tskraeftebedarfs.html ), therefore what I say in my first post that starts this thread, is correct.
Your term IMMIGRATED TO GERMANY is mentioned indeed in the documents, but that does not mean it does not cover the cases in 2009. This wording is a technical term which also covers the people who had migrated before. We have seen similar technical descriptions for Greencard in the reports 2003, 2004 and 2005 from BAMF. It is confusing but covers mine, too.
superid wrote on 21/11/2010 2:33 pm
One thing I would also like to clarify. Your spouse doesnt need the German language A1 ONLY if you were married your spouse as you came to Germany and got the Niederlassungserlaubnis. So for example a person like you who changed his normal AE/BE to this § 19 NE is not eligible to use this relaxation.
I am 100% sure about it because this was the case of a friend of mine. I can search it out sometime when I have time.
Please do that. I am thinking the other way and thus will also ask this to local authorities in Hamburg.
Klenze17.
klenze17
Member since 30/12/2004
Posted on 25/11/2010 3:58 pm
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
Hi Klenze,
I personally still think that 'einwandern' only country in people who came specially on this visa but not people who were living here and then changed their visa status from AE/BE to NE 19. NE19 doesnt only count in specialists/managers with 66K or more salary but also scientists who dont need to earn this amount of money.
But this is more of a speculation. Only BAMF can confirm this.
To your question about in which cases the language restrictions are relaxed for spouses of people with NE19. See the document below:
http://www.vfs-ger...erman%20knowledge.pdf
It says:
''
The following applicants are exempted from this requirement:
1) Spouses of refugees, guest scientists, visiting scholars and highly qualified specialists
holding an unlimited residence permit according to § 19 AufenthG
(“Niederlassungserlaubnis”). This exemption is only applicable, if the marriage took
place before the employed spouse (husband or wife) was granted a residence permit in
Germany.''
supersid
Member since 26/07/2010
Posted on 25/11/2010 5:08 pm
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
Hi Klenze,
After a brief check of the Migrationsbericht 2008
(http://www.bamf.de...ionsbericht-2008.pdf)
Please see page 99 (right top). It says:
''
Davon sind 157 Hochqualifizierte im Jahr 2008
eingereist (2007: 151 Hochqualifizierte). Damit ist die
Zahl der NEU EINGEREISTEN Hochqualifizierten im Vergleich
zum Vorjahr leicht angestiegen (+4,0 %). Insgesamt
war der Großteil der Hochqualifizierten bereits
vor Inkrafttreten des Zuwanderungsgesetzes am
1. Januar 2005 in Deutschland.''
--------------------------------------------
And a call to my contact person at BAMF 
I can report a positive trend to you as far as the NE19 is concerned:
2008 157
2009 311
--------------------------------------------
And a very clear answer to my question if number311 included the people who have been living in Germany and changed from any other residence permit to NE19 - NO. This is purely the number of people coming in new to Germany.
supersid
Member since 26/07/2010
Posted on 27/11/2010 2:37 am
Re: Unlimited Permit for High Skilled Migrants, §19 AufenthG: Observations
supersid, you registered at Trust7 since 26/07/2010, just for 4 months. I have registered here 30/12/2004, for 6 years. You are new here. I suggest to read my postings again, since 2004.
With regards from Hamburg,
Klenze17.
klenze17
Member since 30/12/2004
