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Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
Posted on 15/04/2004 10:30 am
Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
Hi all,
we all are aware in the present circumstances, we need to go back after 5 years. Fine, we can live with it. But what i cannot digest is that the money i paid into my pensions is being enjoyed by the German govt and i dont even get any interest on it. And the bad part of it is, i have to wait complete 2 years to get my contributions back without any interest.
And the worst part is that pensions paid by my employer into my account is completly swallowed by the German government. Dont you think its a theft. Atleast i feel its akin to the english proverb, robbing you in the broad day light.
Worst part is both me and my wife are victims of this robbery. So its like being robbed twice.
Dont we have any solution for it? That we get back both our contributions and the contributions made by our employee towards our pensions after we leave this country? Unfortunately India (my home land) does not have an agreement with Germany to repatriate the pensions.. Any ideas?
Its crossed my mind today morning.. If we analyse the way German Govt(here after just Govt) has framed the rules for Greencard holders is very much sinister. Its like this.
1. we are allowed to stay and work here for only 5 years.
2. Their pensions rules say that you are eligible for pensions only if you subscribe for more than 5 years. Failing that you get back only your contributions 2 years after you leave this country.
3. And the its generally accepted that they will take all the money contributed by employer if you leave within 5 years.
So they are not even giving us a chance to get back our rightful money by forcing us to leave germany as soon as 5 years are complete. I guess we may stand a good chance if we goto a European High court and do a class action suit against Govt for its day light robbery. Think about it.
Cheers,
Cmreddy
cmreddy
Member since 19/11/2003
Posted on 15/04/2004 11:54 am
Re: Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
Hi Reddy,
why are you so worry regarding 5 years limitation?
see this link: http://german-gree...d.org/ITFachleute.pdf
if you are skilled enough, you should not worry like that.
cheers.
dhy2
Member since 30/01/2004
Posted on 15/04/2004 12:39 pm
Can any one help me?! ArbeitsVermittlung Firmen in Stuttgart?!
I want a new Job. I tried to find a Job on www.jobpilot.de but until now Ive got no Answer. I am very disappoint. I thought maybe is a Solution with Personalvermittlung or Arbeitsvermittlung. Is anybody that had found a Job with a intermediate Firma (Personal- und Arbeitsvermittlung Personalberatung) in raum Stuttgart?
Thanks!
lia
Member since 14/04/2004
Posted on 15/04/2004 2:20 pm
Re: Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
hi dhy,
you are missing the whole point. I am bothered about my money. Talk about money and not about the 5 year visa. There are other message who wants to talk abt Aufenthalt etc..
If you have any ideas regarding the Rentenversicherung money let us know. It has nothing to do with my talent. Govt takes money from both talented and not talented..
cmreddy
Member since 19/11/2003
Posted on 15/04/2004 2:53 pm
Re: Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
Hi Cmreddy,
Even I would like to get the RV : 1) On time, not 2 years later. 2)And also the amount contributed by the Arbeitgeber.
But as I know the Rules, I also unwillingly accepted the fact that we would not get Arbeitgebers share of RV. That would be robbed by the Govt.
The only thing which I can add/suggest here is : Govt. is not above law. So, instead of going to EU Courts (which might be very time consuming and expensive) we can try something in Germany only. I have a Rechtschutzversicherung. I would suggest that before going to the Court, one should get this Insurance.
So, if we want to do something in this direction, I am ready to work together.
Chirag.
chirag09
Member since 18/03/2004
Posted on 15/04/2004 3:06 pm
Re: Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
Hi Cmreddy,
the German itself, they have paid the pension for many years, does not know how much will they get. It can happen that they will get nothing.
so i believe the condition that you get 50% at the same time, is much much better than to wait until you are 65, without no guarantee how much you will get.
dhy2
Member since 30/01/2004
Posted on 15/04/2004 3:18 pm
Re: Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
Cmreddy,
Your pension contributions are not "robbed" by the government but actually paid out to current pensioners immediately. Interestingly these pensioners are the same people who built up this country which now provides you with rather well paid work! I don't think the overall situation can be considered "unfair" at all.
The return payment which you're may be going receive in two years (in case you want to or have to leave) won't be paid out of "your" contributions as these have already been paid out to someone else. Instead, some other employees contributions will fund your return payment.
What makes you feel *your employers* contributions should be paid out to *yourself personally* anyway? Wouldn't it be fairer to return these payments to your employer instead?
Finally - looking at the bare financial aspects - you're actually getting a better deal than everyone else who have no choice of opting out of the state pension insurance system. Even today, with a remotely reasonable relation of pensioners to pension contributors the imaginary interest received on the contributions is marginal (low in the single percentage figures). In the very near future, the total net pension payments received will be lower than the payments made, because of the demographic development.
Most people here would be happy to surrender all their future state pension in return for keeping half their contributions and putting them into high interest investments. I guess - depending on the time you spent employed in the last 5 years - you'll probably receive a return payment around 20k Euro. Invested over a period of 25-30 years this amount of money will grow up to a sum of maybe 200k Euro. With this kind of money in the bank you'll be able to live like a king in many countries, maybe also including the country where you were born. How are these prospects "unfair"?
Think twice!
Marc-OS
Member since 22/11/2003
Posted on 15/04/2004 3:36 pm
Re: Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
Yes, everything looks justified! I don't think there are good solutions to such problems except working for 6 years or if there is a chance of staying here in Germany for 1 more year then we could contribute our pension money from our pockets alone. Howzzat!! The biggest problem is like all other grey areas pension system is under scrutiny as you see that Germany is looking for quick reforms because most of their state owned systems like health, pension etc.. are collapsing sooner or later.
nreddy
Member since 09/11/2003
Posted on 15/04/2004 3:48 pm
Re: Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
Hi Marc-OS,
Now you are talking like a Deutscher Beamter. I know about the Ratios you are talking about. Are we responsible to the German Demography? Are we responsible that Germany will not have enough Tay payers to sponsor the Rente of retired people? Are we responsible that Germany is so closed when it comes to the Immigration? Are we esponsible that the Germany do not produce enough children?
The discussion here is, what right has German govt. to eat up the Contribution made by the Arbeitgeber to my RV? That belongs rightfully to ME.
If the govt. passes on what I paied to RV to someone else, I am not responsible for that. I should get what was paid for me as RV component. Remember : the Employer considers these costs too when he employs you. Your costs to the employer are more than your Brutto salary. So, the Arbeitgebers contribution to your RV is meant for YOU. And not for the govt.
Chirag.
chirag09
Member since 18/03/2004
Posted on 15/04/2004 4:10 pm
Re: Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
I think it is time to check out rules & laws, which are in place for these sort of things. If it stated that we will only receive pension money after 2 years, how can one change those laws that easily? sometimes we have to digest such things otherwise we cannot go after each and every problem we are facing here after taking up a suicidal decision to come here on Green Card. The interesting thing is to find a trick to save this pension money but I said you could find a way to contribute for 1 more year by your own or your employer. Otherwise it is definitely waste of time thinking about taking such big things to court! for me it is looks like a sick thing to go around courts in Germany or even European Union. Man! this is definitely a big issue and not offordable for poor GC's to fight with. Sorry for taking a defensive approach!
nreddy
Member since 09/11/2003
Posted on 15/04/2004 4:41 pm
Re: Nothing less than theft... Is there a solution..
Dear friends,
I posted this message to get some ideas (innovative ideas) where in we get our money back. I have absolutely no (not even 0.0001 %) interest in convincing MAC OS or someone else that the money belongs to us. So lets not waste our energies.
Lets concentrate on the modes we can get our money back when we leave.
cmreddy
Member since 19/11/2003