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NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Posted on 13/01/2007 9:29 am
NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Dear All,
What about the new law, if some one gets anual salary >63000 Euro can get NE?
How is it calculated, does it including urlaub and weinacht geld.
Thanks and regards-
ASM
ASM
Member since 25/06/2004
Posted on 20/12/2008 12:46 pm
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Hi,
first of all I want to thank you, Klenze17, for providing us this very important information!!!!
I read my newspaper every day, especially the political and economy parts, but I did not read one word about this!
I also agree with you about your view of the upcoming problems.
Regarding the new possibilities I will talk to Katja from VPMK about a special offer for trust7 members, to get NE easy 
Thanks again
Detlef
trust7
Member since 23/09/2004
Posted on 20/12/2008 2:19 pm
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
This is 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64.800 for 2009. Therefore we must apply for this as soon as possible.
Are you trying to say that one can use the limit 63.600 instead of 64.800 when he manages to apply before 1.1.2009 ?
If it is 64.800 for 2009 then that will be the valid number for the law which will become effective after 1.1.2009. I don't think that you can apply now by referencing a law which didn't become effective yet. So the number 63.600 shouldn't be considered in the context of this law, as it is only for 2008.
Regards,
Lacrima
lacrima
Member since 14/11/2003
Posted on 20/12/2008 2:34 pm
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
I wrote:
This is 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64.800 for 2009. Therefore we must apply for this as soon as possible.
Lacrima asked:
Are you trying to say that one can use the limit 63.600 instead of 64.800 when he manages to apply before 1.1.2009 ?
If it is 64.800 for 2009 then that will be the valid number for the law which will become effective after 1.1.2009. I don't think that you can apply now by referencing a law which didn't become effective yet. So the number 63.600 shouldn't be considered in the context of this law, as it is only for 2008.
Thanks for pointing this, Lacrima. This is a very important point that needs to be clarified.
Technically speaking, since the law becomes effective on 01.01.2009, applications can be run only in 2009. So principially 64.800 Euro for 2009 can be taken as reference.
However when someone applies, he or she must prove that he got this salary. This can be done through confirmation from the finance institutions like Finanzamt. They can however give only a printout of 2008, not 2009, because 2009 data has not been collected for the worker.
So according my to the logic above, 2008 measurements must be taken as reference NE$19 applications in 2009. In other words, for applications in 2009, 63.600 Euro for 2008 must be considered.
I might be wrong, but my logic says this is reasonable. I think Detlef or another professional person can help us more.
Klenze17.
klenze17
Member since 30/12/2004
Posted on 20/12/2008 10:22 pm
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Hi Trust7 forum members,
as I have promised to give technical data about this subject, I am writing this post. I am writing this posting which is extremely important for all of us. Please take a printout of this and download all the documents I give its links, because these data are not anywhere in the world, nor any press news comments on this.
1. As you know from my earlier postings in this thread, German state has officially updated the law w.r.t. minimum annual gross income required to get NE (Niederlassungserlaubnis, unlimited residence/work permit) stated in AufenthG §19:
http://www.aufenth.../aufenthaltsg.html#19
2. German government made a program to improve the rights of foreigns in Germany:
http://www.bmas.de...ramm__fachkraefte.pdf
3. In this program, they have proposed to reduce minimum annual gross income required for AufenthG §19.2.3. In this law sentence it says:
Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung erhalten.
4. "der Doppelte der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung" is 2x 43.200 Euro = 86.400 Euro (2008) and 2x 44.100 Euro = 88.200 Euro (2009):
http://de.wikipedi...nd_Pflegeversicherung
5. Goverment has made a law proposal (Gesetzentwurf) to change the part I wrote in (4): http://dip21.bunde...td/16/102/1610288.pdf
In this proposal they say in page 5, right column:
In § 19 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 werden die Wörter „dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung“ durch die Wörter „der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung“ ersetzt.
6. "die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung" is 63.600 Euro (2008), 64.800 Euro (2009):
http://de.wikipedi...he_Rentenversicherung
7. Bundesrat said the government must reduce the salary down to 53.400 Euro, but government refused it:
http://dip21.bunde...td/16/107/1610722.pdf
8. BeschV (Beschäftigungsverordnung) from Federal Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs (Bundesministerium für Arbeit und Soziales): http://dip21.bunde.../brd/2008/0840-08.pdf
9. Beschlussempfehlung von Innenausschuss (parliament commission report):
http://dip21.bunde...td/16/109/1610914.pdf
This document is the proof that parliament has passed the law
10. Bundesrat refused 63.600 Euro:
http://www.bundest...politik/22908287.html
They have proposed 53.400 Euro:
http://dip21.bunde...td/16/111/1611166.pdf
11. Vermittlungsauschuss (advisory committe) has concluded not to reduce 63.600 Euro:
http://www.bundesr...-2008.html?__nnn=true
12. Bundesrat then approved the law:
http://www.bundesr...-node.html?__nnn=true
TOP 76:
Gesetzeskategorie:
Zustimmungsbedürftiges Gesetz
Beschlusstenor:
Zustimmung
Bemerkungen:
Die Zuleitung an den Bundesrat ist für den 18. Dezember 2008 vorgesehen.
With item 12, it is officially proven that the law is PASSED.
13. Apart from all these, all local authorities for aliens (Ausländerhörde) get "Anwendungshinweis des BMIs" (recommendation of Federal Ministry of the Interior to the local authorities) document, that how they should intepret the law. This document is actually not open to the public, but by chance I have found it on internet:
http://www.inneres...ochqualifizierte2.pdf
There it says
Bei dem Personenkreis nach Nummer 3 ist die Annahme der „Hochqualifikation“ durch ihre Berufserfahrung und berufliche Stellung gerechtfertigt. Um eine missbräuchliche Anwendung und Auslegung zu verhindern, wird zusätzlich eine Mindestgehaltsgrenze in der Höhe des Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung gefordert, die regelmäßig ein Indiz für die herausragende berufliche Stellung und Fähigkeit darstellt. Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze wird jährlich zum Ende des Kalenderjahres an die allgemeine Entwicklung angepasst. Sie findet sich in der Verordnung über maßgebende Rechengrößen der Sozialversicherung, die im Bundesgesetzblatt Teil I veröffentlicht wird.
Here it says that the salary is a measurement for "high qualification". There is no citation on qualification type, ie. whether you must be an engineer or not.
13. There is no detailed press news for all the stuff above. This law is extremely important for the foreigns and but no press information exist. The list above is the only one that can give you an idea.
According to the data above, anyone must get NE AufenthG §19, after 01.01.2009, as soon as you can prove that you get minimum 63.600 Euro (2008) or 64.800 Euro (2009), immediately. If not, a lawyer, who is expert in foreign law, must win any court case according to the data above.
In 2009 a lot of foreigns will be jobless. It will be then extremely difficult to get this NE because a lof jobless foreigns will occupy Ausländerbehörde. Therefore take a copy of all documents above!
Klenze17.
klenze17
Member since 30/12/2004
Posted on 01/01/2009 11:32 pm
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
The law change has been documented in Official Journal of the State, with "BGBl. I S. 2846":
http://www.bgblpor...bl1f/bgbl108s2846.pdf
The PDF document can be accessed from http://frei.bundes...p;jahr=2008&nr=63 .
With this document, the law is effective as of 01.01.2009, i.e. 84K has been history.
I wish that there would be no problems about this law in practice, but I strongly believe that the alien offices will have a lot of problems to give this permit to the people who need it, because it will be difficult to keep track of the processes for these permits among the foreigns who will be jobless and occupy the offices in 2009.
Klenze17.
klenze17
Member since 30/12/2004
Posted on 02/01/2009 2:17 pm
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Thanks Klenze17 for the update.
Few days ago, I have received approval from Landratsamt which says ''zur Beschäftigung ohne Beschränkung für Sie zugestimmt''.
Does this mean BE ? We are planning to give our Passports middle of this month for necessary stamping.
But with the new NE rules prevailing, do you suggest me to take BE or NE ? Some pointers would be helpful.
Thanks,
Truster
truster
Member since 26/06/2008
Posted on 03/01/2009 10:03 am
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Truster asks:
But with the new NE rules prevailing, do you suggest me to take BE or NE ? Some pointers would be helpful.
Truster, there are tons of posts in this web site, which answer all of your questions. All of us have spent a lot of time to write all these threads/messages. Please don't be lazy, now it's your turn to spend time to get the answers. Also, please read the complete thread of this post.
Klenze17.
klenze17
Member since 30/12/2004
Posted on 09/01/2009 1:51 pm
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Hi,
Thanks Klenze for the valuable info, according to the information provided above.
Today i received letter from landratsamt, with the following
Jahresbruttogehalt i.H.v. mindestens dem DOPPELTEN der Beitragsbemssungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung.
Diese Grenze bemisst sich für 2009 auf einem Gehalt von mindestens 64.800,- Euro. Also müssten Sie uns einen Jahresverdienst i.H.d. Doppelten, also i.H.v. 129.600,- Euro nachweisen. (§ 19 Abs. 2 Nr.3 AufenthG)
does this mean i should have 129600 Euros as my annual salary ?
Krishna
mkvsr
Member since 18/01/2004
Posted on 09/01/2009 2:41 pm
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
@krishna
They are wrong
http://www.aufenth.../aufenthaltsg.html#19
(2) Hoch qualifiziert nach Absatz 1 sind insbesondere
1.Wissenschaftler mit besonderen fachlichen Kenntnissen,
2.Lehrpersonen in herausgehobener Funktion oder wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter in herausgehobener Funktion oder
3.Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung erhalten.
It only says "mindestens" and not "doppelte". So ask them if they dont have it wrong.
raj
Member since 27/01/2004
Posted on 09/01/2009 3:18 pm
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
@krishna
they mixed up the lines.
Previously they said before correction..
sth like doppelte....krankenversicherung and after correction its
mindestens...gesetzliche..rentenversicehrung.
So the lines accordign to your letter says doppelte rentenversicherung..
theres some confusion on their part I guess toi interpret the latest and the previous ones.
cheers
rajendrak
Member since 23/06/2008