Posted on 18.11.2003 01:47

Donuts

I am going to tell you all a little story.

I had a friend sometimes. Every time when I (or someone from our college-team) wanted to say what I think and feel - honestly, there was a guy who was always trying to prove that his point of view was more logical, more better, more perfect than everyone else's. Every time when someone was trying to pursuade him that his oppinion is wrong, that someone went out of that conversaton hurted.

He always understood the world completely different from all of us. Even when he knew that he was wrong, he was against us all. Just to be the opposition. Sometimes he provocated an argue, and then he stood back and enjoyed his clever "I knew it!" attitude.

To cut the story short, this guy ended up selling donuts. On every generation meeting he was the main guy - the show man. We all knew that and everyone of us just hated sharing that same table with such a person, but then, we all did, because he was always coming on our annual meetings just to "show" us. At the end, he was selling donuts and because of that he had the right to be the prettiest, the smartest, the loudest, the BIG SHOT! We were all "only" engineers, doctors, professors that anyway do not know anything about "real life" and for God's sake, he is the one "with the life experiance and wisdom" and therefore his "street knowledge" might be usefull to some of us sometimes.

But when the show was over, he was just an ordinary guy with rethoric that hurts, but do not have the strength of an arguments.

Marc has the right to have his own oppinion. Of course... I respect that. But he is wrong. Not even a single word that he speaks is on the spot and I do not want to argue with such a person, because I am not a little kid whose favorite toy was taken by some little girl and now the mummy must come to sort things out.

So people - I didn't leave the site. I just moved myself to a chat topic that I set up and in the future I will be there awaiting for a German conversation with JODDY for example. ))

Marc, are you in the mood to join us in German? I will be happy to see you writing there.

Detlev, I do not want to open my company. Even if I do, that will be something that has nothing to do with Engineering. I will probably open a little French-like Cafeteria where I am going to sit every morning, drink my cofee and read my favorite newspaper. From time to time I like donuts with Capuccino.

Maybe I will employ someone who makes "the best" donuts in the world and who will "show everyone" that making donuts is really "an art" comparing to everything what we do here.

Just kidding (about donut part in last sentence, of course ).

Best regards.

D.

Posted on 19.11.2003 09:48

Re: Changing a Green Card status to a "normal" residence permit? Infos please...

Welcome to Germany!!! Yes you are a foreigner and they treat you like it. You are beneath them. You are here to work because obviously you are desperate. I am from Australia where I have left family, nice people, great weather, a beautiful enviornment, money, future, etc etc etc to come to place where I am treated by the authorities like I am a burden on society and that they are doing ME a favour. I came here just for a cultural experience and to really learn about this country so I am in a different situation to you however many things changed whilst I was here....and now I can't wait to get out.

Essentially you have been fucked over by this Green Card program not unlike so many others. After working here for a year of so I had the opportunity to start a business here with some others until I found out that unless I was employing more than several people and bringing in lots of money, I would have been booted out. So I have halted my plans for the concept here in Germany and I am taking it to the UK. Just what a struggling Germany needs. Even if I created 5 jobs and could support myself then why not let me stay? Germany needs jobs......

This green card program is a serious exploitation of foreigners. The powers that be here in Germany give you virtually no info on it at the when you apply and they expect you to know the rules and regulations as if they were taught to you at school. Why do they not give you any information on the program when you come here? Because they have the attitude "Come to our country, pay full tax and social security but don't expect anything for it because we will kick you out before you are entitled to it". Does that seem fair to you? Why don't they give us all of the rules of this program when we apply? Because it is not a good deal. Who would agree to this otherwise? If a private enterprises did that here in Germany then the unions would come down on them like a ton of bricks but because we are sucker foreigners and we are dealing with the government, they get away with it.

As a foreigner I seem to attract more foreigners as friends so it is strange how every one I know who is not German (and even some germans) can not wait to get out of this place. That is no exaggeration. It is because this is not a good place for foreigners. It is said that Germany is a multi cultural society which it is but the foreigners will never be seen as being German.

Unless you are like I was and are just looking for the cultural experience I would not recommend Germany to anyone wishing to come here and if they still want to, just use it as a stepping stone to something better. I would say go to the UK or some other place where you will be treated as an equal instead of a "foreigner". This is a real sad situation but there is probably no way around it.

Anyway, I am off to the UK soon where I have been welcomed by the authorities. I am sad to leave but at the same time I am looking forward to earning a lot more money, being treated like an equal and getting away from the German regulations.

Good luck

Bob "sour grapes" Creasote

Posted on 19.11.2003 22:16

Re: Changing a Green Card status to a "normal" residence permit? Infos please...

Atreides,

Like I said, you are being fucked over by this program but it is possible. Yes, the guys I were teaming up were Germans but that makes no difference. You need to have a serious business plan and some seriously good projections for your business to make it work. Just don't expect it to be easy as it is a case by case situation. There is some bullshit article that Deltef or some other moderator probably wrote on this site in the success stories section.

Business plans are serious work if you do them properly. Can you speak excellent German? Because you will need that too because civil servants as a general rule are too stupid to speak English (or just plain can't be arsed). Back in the days when I couldn't speak a word of German (thankfully, now is not such a problem) I had one lady from the Foreigners Office tell me that English is not allowed to be spoken there! The agression that she used in the tone of her voice is hard to forget.

Remember you are a foreigner in this land and you allowed to stay for one reason, and that is for the good of the land. Read through these forums for a start and see how others have been treated. Some of the stories have made me cringe with disbelief. I actually have a bangladeshi working for me and he told me that it is not far from the truth. I am just lucky that I look like a German so I don't get any grief. I have never seen racism from the authories like I have here in Germany. It is clear from these forums that Germany is not a country for foreigners.

cheers

Bob

Posted on 20.11.2003 10:42

Re: Changing a Green Card status to a "normal" residence permit? Infos please...

Bob.

I am not sure yet if Germany is the absolute place for foreigners or not..

but one thing I feel frm us msgs is that Germany is definitely not the place for U..

I would suggest that U move on to UK asap and not waste even 1 single moment of Ur life here in Germany.. where U just find problems...

I use to live in UK before moving to Germany... UK is also not that rosy for foreigners Bob.. to put across my point well enuf, here is a small example, there is no unemployment-insurance for foreign workers working in UK.. if one looses his/her job in UK, U have no option to get any support from the government whilst U r looking for another job...

Germany on the other hand gives U an equal oppportunity by giving enuf time and unemployment money in order to support U in ur hard times...

I m not saying that Germany is better than UK.. or vice-versa.. I guess each place is unique in its culture and offerings.. so it might be worth thinking that is it the country which is bothering U or Ur own attitude..

cheers and have a nice week
Nitin

---------------------------------------------

Rebecca Johnson: Money is the opposite of the weather. Nobody talks about it, but everybody does something about it.

Posted on 20.11.2003 12:29

Re: Changing a Green Card status to a "normal" residence permit? Infos please...

Hi all,

Nitin malhotra is absolutely right. It is better to search for a place where you find the best and likely to live environment. Basically it is difficult to choose a place at the first instance and I think you will have to see & experience on your own rather than asking your friends. I do strongly believe that their are negative and positive aspects behind this green card program but I think it is a great opportunity one can take to learn german culture and its people. And my experience tells that Germany is economically strong standing in 3rd position throught out the world so there must be land of oppotunities here and it needs patience & time for being successful therefore luck plays a big role. Who cares how ur german neighbour behaves if he give respect then I 2 will do otherwise IGAL. so everything is up to you, be more selfish for these kind of things and you will achieve grt things.

one example,
recently there was a land of opportunity for me in my company to earn more money for participating in third level support. But my team leader had broken everything coming to me I don't know why but he made himself through and now he is earning it. So I thought myself when you land in a foriegn country do not expect more just get what is coming to you.

ciao,
Nitin

Posted on 20.11.2003 23:04

Re: Changing a Green Card status to a "normal" residence permit? Infos please...

Holding my breath here